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X-Men: Evolution - Mutants Rising

Wednesday, April 30, 2003

X2 JUNKET: RALPH WINTER AND LAUREN SHULER DONNER (PRODUCERS)

QUESTION: James Marsden and Famke Janssen said earlier there's less pressure the second time around for actors. Is it like that with the producers?

WINTER: In one sense it's easier. In one sense, with the actors, they know their parts. They know their character. They're into it. They don't have to discover that in this process.

And it's easier in some physical production things. We built Cerebro in the first movie. We figured out a better way to do it. Before, we had to move the walls overnight to do it. Now we built it in a way that (director Bryan) Singer can push it in five minutes and move walls.

So there's a number of elements that are easier in doing it, but the pressure's still there to do better, do more, raise the bar.

DONNER: Also to make a sequel that will stand on its own and not be dependent on the audience having seen the first one. So while we have to be true to our fans and take the movie one step further, we were very conscious of trying to explain to a new public what the powers were.

For example, you saw a scene in Cerebro where Logan first walks in and he's smoking a cigar and Xavier tells him not to. And he puts the cigar out in his hand, which is kind of fun, and it heals. Well, that's for the people who don't know, who hadn't seen the first one, that sort of thing. So we always had to think about that.

But it was a lot easier in terms of the visual effects, things that we had already done the research and development on.

QUESTION: Making it stand on its own, were there discussions about needing to reintroduce elements and relationships?

DONNER: Yes, but if we could do it in a fun way.

WINTER: Like setting up Wolverine's healing power. Like setting up Rogue and her powers with the funny drawing. There's a lot of different things to try to set those things up in a subtle way without paying a lot of attention to it so we could move on and go deeper.

DONNER: Without pointing to it.

QUESTION: I think X-Men had the biggest box office for a July release ever. I wonder why you decided to push the date up to May this year.

DONNER: It's a great day.

WINTER: May's a great at the beginning of the summer. You know, The Mummy, Spider-Man have all done well being at the front end of the summer. We could make it and so we wanted to make it. We wanted to be there at the front.

DONNER: Also, I think there's a general excitement among audiences to go to the movies, and if you're the first one out, it's great. You're the tip of the summer and you get that excitement and they all come to the box office. Fox staked that date out two years ago.

QUESTION: It wasn't too long ago that you'd say, '"K, we'll finish the film and then decide to release it," but you knew before the first frame when it would go out.

DONNER: Not only that, but we finished filming in November and we have a total of 1,000 visual effects. 820 hard visual effects and about 180 additions. It was very hard. In fact, we saw our final visual effect Friday.

WINTER: You all saw the film when?

QUESTION: Last night.

WINTER: Last night? Yeah, so you've seen all the new shots cut in, which weren't even cut in on Friday night.

DONNER: Literally, 1:30 on Friday, we finaled the film.

WINTER: Yeah, it was too late to make the Friday screening.

It's good news and bad news having that. The good news is we were aiming at a very specific target, so all the elements that go into launching a move can be focused in on that date. The bad news is, yeah we've got to be there and there's a limit to the amount of changes and what you can do.

DONNER: One other thing about the release date: When you're in the middle of the summer, you have to worry about the monster that came out before you and, if it's doing really big business, will you be able to keep your theaters? We don't have to worry about that. We're the monster. We're going to start off. So, it's a great date and it's a relief to come on that date.

QUESTION: When does The Matrix: Reloaded come out?

DONNER: May 15th is the monster that comes after us, but it gives us enough playing time to get our audience.

WINTER: But we're PG-13 and it's R so we feel like we might get a little more playing time as well.

DONNER: Right.

QUESTION: This movie was originally rated R. Was there any concern about making it PG-13?

WINTER: The movie was never rated R.

DONNER: We were always going for PG-13.

QUESTION: Then it wasn't at any time rated R?

DONNER: No. It was never rated R. We went up in front of the board and there were a few things they objected to, which we have cut out and which will be on the DVD, but our intention, it was written as PG-13. You can't create...you can't film an R movie and then have it end up a PG-13. It doesn't work.

QUESTION: So you didn't lose anything?

WINTER: For instance in the fight, that happens in the augmentation room. From the origin of it we have two characters that have claws. At some point they're gonna fight. At some point there gonna go at it. So for us it was about the intensity of that. It was about the blood, which we tried to hold back on, because that's what really pushes it over the edge and makes it unnecessarily gory. So we made changes in that fight sequence to minimize that for the ratings board, but I don't think that diminishes anything from the fun of that.

And then hopefully in the DVD we'll be able to show just how that was generated and all the choices that were made and maybe a more full version of that fight will appear on the DVD. We'll see.

DONNER: Blood is an issue. You have to be aware up front of what you're doing.

QUESTION: How far do you want to take the franchise? One of the best storylines is the rise of the Phoenix and the eventual war with the Sentinels, which seems impossible to actually do.

DONNER: Well, we'll figure it out. You can tell by the ending of this movie that we're leading to that, whether that will be X3 or that will be X4 we don't know at the moment.

QUESTION: Marvel comics seem to be this newly overflowing well. Is there something about knowing you have a large fan base for these concepts? You can't assume just because it's a successful comic, it will be a successful film.

WINTER: I think that's true, you can't assume.

DONNER: Yeah.

WINTER: I think what we have in X-Men is characters that are accessible, that are credible. One of the things that Bryan had always insisted on from the beginning is characters that you can see, as if they walked by you on the street. They're real. They're credible. They're not campy. They're not over-the-top comic book. So he's got specific radar for that. I think that's what's helped us.

You know, It's funny hair on Wolverine but you've seen people walk down the street in Hollywood like that, or in New York. It's not that far off. Maybe the blue person is too much, but most of these characters you can see them walk down the street and are they or aren't they a mutant? I think that makes it real as opposed to seeing characters in yellow spandex suits. I think that's where it makes it real to the audience and it's part of what draws viewers in.

QUESTION: What about Fantastic Four?

WINTER: That'll be a tougher one to do because that is a little more light-hearted so that'll be a challenge with that one. That'll be a challenge.

QUESTION: That's been tried several times and failed, so why bother at this point?

WINTER: It's popular. It has its own fan following. It's going to be a fun one to try to crack.

QUESTION: How close are you?

WINTER: We're working on a script, another one.

QUESTION: Will we live long enough to see it?

WINTER: I don't know. I don't know. That one is more fun and upbeat and funny. So that's gonna be a tricky one to break open.

QUESTION: How much fun was it to be back on the set?

DONNER: It was great fun. We happen to be a group that really likes each other. It was like a reunion. We hang together. We party together. We play together. We do paintball together. Even coming together to do this junket. We like each other a lot.

QUESTION: How involved are you in the making of the video games?

DONNER: In the case of this movie, we were not involved in the game at all. Usually you are. Usually you're involved from the get-go, but we were not on this one.

QUESTION: Can you define a summer film? Are there certain characteristics a movie has to have to be a summer film? Would you be comfortable taking X2 and putting it out in November?

DONNER: People are available. That's what a summer film is all about. There are more people available to see your movie, therefore your movie will perform better at the box office.

WINTER: It's about the kids. It's about making a big event picture that kids will want to come see and there's more kids available over the course of the summer then there is at Christmas. It's harder to get kids out in October or February.

DONNER: The weather's nice. You don't have to deal with snowstorms. Even adults go on vacation so it's a better time in terms of box office.

QUESTION: How have the kid audiences changed? Are the kid audiences savvier? More cynical?

DONNER: All of the above. MTV plays a lot in that, I think. Don't you?

WINTER: Yeah.

Kids are smart. You can't play down to them. They're reading stuff on the 'Net. They're watching these comic books. They're an educated consumer, so we're trying to make a smart movie for them.

And Bryan's got a real desire for that in terms of the design of it and constantly playing ideas off of other kids to find out, "Does this make sense? Does this look goofy? Is this stupid?" and, it's a smart consumer.

QUESTION: Is it a challenge to get the studio to make a smart decision and keep the intelligence level up a little bit?

WINTER: The studio's been very supportive I think of this movie.

DONNER: Oh, entirely.

WINTER: ...in getting behind Bryan and getting behind the story.

QUESTION: But the first time around there were some sticking points. What kind of challenges do you have?

DONNER: The first movie, you have to remember that there were not many successful comic-book movies that preceded it. So they did proceed with caution. They were smart enough to know that this was a potential franchise, but they proceeded with caution and rightfully so.

Our budget was restricted so that, if it did work, we could make another sequel, just as our budget was restricted on this one so that we could make another one.

But it's very interesting how the studios work. They look at their year and they plant their tent-pole movies, these blockbusters. So they have one being released in May and one being released July fourth and one in August. And then they schedule the other movies around that: one in November, one in December and then they schedule the others around it. So, they plan well in advance.

QUESTION: Does it make any sense ultimately, or is it the old "nobody knows anything?"

DONNER: Nobody knows anything, but it's different than it used to be. Studios are now owned by corporations. I mean, there used to be Samuel Goldwyn and Jack Warner, and people who loved movies ran the studios. Not to say that Sony Corporation and Vivendi don't love (them). They do, but they're corporations. So now we have our chairmen, our presidents answering to a corporation, therefore their mandate is to make money.

By the way, the executives that we deal with, the presidents, Tom Rothman, Hutch Parker, love movies and their job is to make really good movies. But it's News Corp. that's running the show.

QUESTION: It seems like money is more important than a really good movie.

DONNER: Well, hopefully one leads to the other.

WINTER: And we're in a tricky position, because we're responsible for those dollars that are there, but ultimately what matters in the final product. What matters is, and what the world remembers, is what the movie's about.

So the tricky thing about being an advocate with Bryan and ourselves for what's going to make the best movie, as well as what's gonna be fiscally responsible to make sure we get to come play again. So that's constant tension there in doing that.

But ultimately it's about the movie. That's what lasts and at the end of the day, nobody cares how hard you worked or how difficult it was. All that matters is, does the movie work or doesn't it. That's the constant thing to put in perspective and it enters into all the kinds of discussions that shape the movie along the way.

QUESTION: There are a lot of good movies that don't make much money, and very lousy movies that often make lots of money.

DONNER: It also depends on how the movie is sold. A lot of times there are very good movies. Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, I personally loved that movie. It wasn't sold right, which is why they're doing it again. Election. It's just sometimes the studio doesn't quite know how to sell it or it's not coming out at the right time.

WINTER: There's only so many things that we're in control of as producers as well. So the thing that we can most control is how the movie turns out. So that's what we work at the hardest. Then in terms of selling the movie there's so many people, again, because it's such a big event, there's a lot of other people who get involved with that. I think we're very fortunate with this. This is gonna sell and get to the marketplace and do well.

But you're right. That's a common problem as a producer is to figure out how to make a good movie and be sure that it gets to the audience that's intended.

DONNER: I think also, sometimes, by the way, bad movies, quote/unquote, do well sometimes because the studio was smart enough to release that movie at a certain time when there was no other movie like it around. And it's a family movie, for example, or it's an action film. The audiences feel like seeing that and they're the only game in town. They'll do really well.

QUESTION: X2 is a very hard PG-13 movie. Your audience is a very PG-13 audience. Is there a responsibility not to push that envelope?

DONNER: Oh, yes. We know going in, we're not gonna show blood. We're not gonna show a degree of violence that would be objective to a PG-13 audience.

WINTER: And the stuff that's there I think is within that world. Again, you've got people with claws, you know they're gonna fight. So, they're not gonna just show those claws without actually having to use them. So that's all within that same world.

QUESTION: So why would you not show blood, aside from pleasing the ratings board? For your audience's sake, what harm would seeing blood on the screen do?

WINTER: It makes it gory. You know, when you actually see the claws coming out or you see the claws going in, with blood spurting, that's just over the top.

DONNER: It's more visceral and there's no need for it in this world, in the X-Men world, because some of the powers, like Magneto's powers are not violent. There's reason to go that extra step, it becomes exploitive at that point.

QUESTION: Is this just an aesthetic thing or do you think audiences respond to violence on the screen?

DONNER: Well, I think it's tricky times, by the way. I think we're even more sensitive to violence because we're watching it every day on the news. I think as a filmmaker it's our responsibility not to perpetuate that and also to be sensitive to what's going on.

WINTER: It depends on the movie you're making as well. I don't know how you would make The Sopranos as a movie, without making it R. How do you make a horror movie...if you make a horror movie that's PG, you won't do any business. That's a pretty specific, niche audience that wants that kind of stuff. So it depends on the picture.

But yeah, I think we try to take some responsibility about what goes on and who the audience is and try to be faithful to that.

QUESTION: Getting back to the idea of a "bad movie," nobody sets out to make one but everybody knows that they happen. When you see a project going south, why is it so difficult to pull the plug? Why do bad movies get made and released?

WINTER: Part of it is, you don't see it until you're part way through shooting and the script is not coming out on film the way you thought. It's an awful realization when that happens. It's awful, but you know, you're right. I don't think anyone starts out to make a bad one. Everyone's got high intentions.

Sometimes, yeah, you've invested so much into it you think, maybe we can fix this. Because you do tell a different story in post-production. You can manipulate the story a little differently. So there's always hope prior that, maybe we can fix this, maybe we can shape it differently.

QUESTION: Does anyone ever acknowledge it or does everyone always keep up his or her brave face and say, "God we're having a great time"?

WINTER: No, I think people do recognize it and how can we fix it and work. I'm not talking about this movie.

DONNER: No!

WINTER: I've got movies on my resume that aren't the ones that I want promoted. Yeah, you try to fix it. You try to figure out, "How can we stem the tide here?"

I've worked on movies as well where, it's not fun in the process, but the movie turns out great. And you can also have a lot of fun making the movie, and the movie comes out poor.

So that's not a fair judgment of how it's working.

QUESTION: It fascinates me that, can't just pull the plug.

WINTER: Generally it does have to keep going. And it's hard.

DONNER: And it depends on the elements that make it bad. For example, your lead character is very unlikable. Let's say the lead character was cast wrong, occasionally they're re-cast, but if you're lead character is very unlikable then you strive in the following scenes that you're filming to make them more likable. You're trying to fix it as you're going along.

QUESTION: When you come out to the press like this on a bad movie, are you acting or are you lying?

WINTER: You pick and choose, on those movies, what you'll say. You pick and choose carefully. You find the things you can talk nice things about and the other things, like my mom told me, you don't talk about it.

DONNER: And the truth is, whether it's a good movie or a bad movie, people worked really hard. They worked 12, 16 hours a day, six days a week, and you don't want to hurt all those people who came out and did the movie by bashing it yourself. So, you find the best elements and you talk about that.



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